Just the usual Boeing deficiency?

8/1/2020

In this photo taken on Saturday, May 26, 2018, showing the actual Ukrainian Boeing 737-800 UR-PSR plane that crashed Wednesday Jan. 8, 2020, on the outskirts of Tehran, Iran, seen here as it waits to takeoff at Borispil international airport outside Kyiv, Ukraine. This Ukrainian airplane carrying 176 people crashed on Wednesday shortly after takeoff from Tehran's main airport, killing all onboard, Iranian state TV and officials in Ukraine said. (AP Photo/Oleg Belyakov).

Just the usual Boeing deficiency?

Or could it be that we are at covert war?

CBC: Cause of Flight PS752 crash unknown, plane goes down minutes after takeoff near Tehran - 63 Canadians among the dead

Trudeau: "Our government will continue to work closely with its international partners to ensure that this crash is thoroughly investigated..."
The passenger jet, Flight PS752, crashed on Wednesday just minutes after taking off from Tehran's main airport, turning farmland into fields of flaming debris.
Ukrainian Foreign Affairs Minister Vadym Prystaiko said 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians and 11 Ukrainians were on board — the Ukrainian nationals included two passengers and the nine crew. There were also 10 Swedish, four Afghan, three German and three British nationals, he said.

YYC Question: Does Trudeau consider Iran to be an "international partner"?
Answer: The word "continue" is kind of a giveaway that the answer is "no".

YYC Question: An unwanted thought, but nevertheless: Is the US administration cold-blooded enough? evil enough? depraved enough? to have had a hand in this to incriminate Iran?

Answer: Two Commenters to the CBC article suggest he may well be:

1. A sad day for those that paid the highest price of geopolitics and truth that will likely never come out to begin healing for those that lost loved ones.
2. This story will never see the full light of day.

Reuters: Iran won't release the black box.

YYC Question: Could this that Iran is guilty, or that Iran fears that releasing the black box might deep six the truth entirely.

Answer: Everything after "or".

Seaching further: The Guardian answers my question:

Commenting after the discovery of the black box flight recorders at the crash site, Abedzadeh said: “We will not give the black boxes to the manufacturer (Boeing) and the Americans. It’s not yet clear which country the black box will go to for the investigation,” he added.
“This accident will be investigated by Iran’s aviation organisation but the Ukrainians can also be present during the incident’s investigation,” he added.

Further indication that this may well have been a cold-blooded, indirect attack on Iran itself:

CBC: 27 Edmontonians believed dead in Iran plane crash

"We lost a significant portion of our community, and everybody in Edmonton that's of Iranian descent will know somebody that was on that flight."

GlobalNews: At least 6 from Winnipeg believed to be on plane that crashed in Tehran, killing 63 Canadians

They’re identified as Amirhossien Ghasemi, 32, Amirhossien Ghorbani, 21, Forogh Khadem, 38, Mahdi Sadeghi, Anisa Sadeghi, 10, and Bahareh Haj Esfandiari, 41.

Get the picture?

Will the following serve as an alibi?

Bloomberg: June 2019 - Pilots Flagged Software Problems on Boeing Jets Besides Max

TheVerge: Everything you need to know about the Boeing 737 Max airplane crashes

What are the 737 Max jets? Why did two of them crash within five months of each other? And what is MCAS?

Was it the usual Boeing problem or was it something else?

Here's a coincidence:

ABCNews: Jan 8/2020: President Donald Trump was preparing to address the nation at 11 a.m.

It was unclear whether Trump would choose to de-escalate the crisis by perhaps dismissing the Iranian attack, which apparently caused no U.S. or Iraqi casualties, or decide to retaliate more forcefully against Iran as he threatened to do in the wake of his order last week to kill Iran's top general.

C-SPAN Jan 8/20: One day after Iran attacked U.S. bases in Iraq, President Trump addressed the nation:

... saying there were no casualties and the regime appeared to be “standing down.” He announced that the U.S. would immediately impose new sanctions on Iran until it changes its behavior. The president’s remarks came days after the U.S. killed an Iranian general. He addressed the decision to order the drone strike against the general, saying the United States sent a powerful message to terrorists: “If you value your own life, you will not threaten the lives of our people.”

Appearances can be deceiving, especially in view of the included threat. Trump is supposedly a born-again Christian; in fact, he claimed to be the greatest representative of the Christians they've had in a long time. But the Bible says: "Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one".

Yet Trump is quite enigmatic. Whatever he's implying, there certainly have been evil times on earth and it's clear we are living in yet another one. Little wonder that End of Days people are more expectant of Jesus' imminent return than ever before:

Signs of End Times:

11. The Battle of Armageddon: - When Turkey make their move to Jerusalem, the various nations who support Israel, especially America will come against Turkey and the radical Muslims, and as the prophecy of Daniel 11:45 says, the king of the north (Turkey) will 'come to his end.' And with Turkey coming to it's [sic] end, many other nations like Russia, India, Pakistan and China will come into the battle to take control and thus The battle of armageddon will take place. This is the final world battle as described in the 6th plague. Sometime during this great battle, Jesus Christ returns as "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS" to defeat Satan and his hosts and to deliver the saints.

I still maintain that no Jesus is ever going to return to take the American so-called "Christians" to Heaven. Not as long as they can't recognize an anti-Christ when they see one in action:

USA.Church: Top 10 Reasons Why Christians Support President Trump

“The people reaffirming covenant that the USA serves the Lord caused God to raise up and use President Trump.”

And not just Christians support Trump:

CNN: Top Facebook exec: Yes, we got Trump elected and it may happen again

And, talk about the hand of God -- the impeachment vote has been delayed due to the recent shocking events:

CTV: McConnell says he has votes to set rules for Trump's trial

But...

[Nancy Pelosi] cut short an impeachment discussion with her leadership team Tuesday night at the Capitol when an aide handed her a note about the crisis unfolding in the Middle East. She asked Democrats to "pray," according to a lawmaker at the closed-door session.
Pelosi appears in no rush to transmit the articles of impeachment as Democrats push to hear from more witnesses but McConnell focuses Republicans on a strategy for speedy acquittal. The Senate can't start the proceedings until the charges against Trump are sent.

Pelosi was "handed a note" on "Tuesday night", which means it was Wednesday morning in Tehran (Tehran time is 8 hours later than Eastern time) so the "crisis unfolding" may well have included information about the plane crash as well as the Iraq attack, though I've yet to see a news article that gives the exact time of the crash.

CTV: Here's [some of] what Canadians can expect if U.S. President Trump wins again in 2020

LUMBER, AUTO INDUSTRIES IN LIMBO - A RECESSION IN 2020? - ‘TRUMP ERA’ SOLIDIFIED

Canada as a country has to decide if it wants to serve as a counterpoint to Trump’s America or follow in its footsteps.”

War is the best antidote for a presidential impeachment. In other words, we are at war, folks. All the signs indicate there's plenty more to come.

27 Comments

M. Rocknest

8/1/2020 06:51:23 pm

Indeed, Yaya, there is plenty more to come. I think the Saker is a fairly good analyst and he says this is not over. It will be interesting if Sheikh Imran Hosein comes up with a comment soon.
http://www.4pt.su/en/content/last-war-gogs-and-magogs-world-government-russian-conquest-constantinople

Meanwhile we must breathe while we can, before we find ourselves holding our breath again, hoping and praying the idiot-in-tweet doesn't escalate us into WW3.

Now about that tragic plane crash in Tehran. It shouldn't take experts on the ground long to determine if it was an accident or sabotage. It's perfectly understandable that Iran would not allow any American to be involved in the investigation. The MH17 crash turned out to be an abomination of an investigation and Iran is wise to insist on unbiased investigators. IF the final report indicates sabotage we should once again consider "cui bono" and I'm certain that would not be Iran. They carried out their revenge strikes for Soleimani's assassination (sooner than I thought they would) in an open, measured manner against US military installations and in accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter. Deviously, deliberately and despicably killing civilians flying on a commercial plane is not their style. Remember Iran Air Flight 655 was downed by a US missile.

"Yet Trump claimed to be the greatest representative of the Christians they've had in a long time."

By that Trump meant only the ziophilic Christians. You know the ones who rabidly support Israel so that their inglorious rapture will happen soonest. Trump has also said he is the best thing ever for Israel and has proven that many times over (sucking up to AIPAC, obeying his master's voice (Bibi), moving the US embassy, condoning the settlements, ceding the Golan Heights to Israel, etc.) Whatever Bibi wants, Bibi gets. Those two black hawks are birds of a feather, judging by how closely they stick together.

19/1/2020 04:57:17 pm

Sheikh Imran Hosein has now put out a video about the assassination of Gen. Soleimani, the Iranian response and the shootdown of PS752. The last part of his video startled me but after I thought it over it did seem his suggestion to the Iranian government has merit. I don't know enough about Sheikh Imran Hosein to determine if he would hold any sway with them but he is a respected Islamic scholar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6eKAafePFo

yayacanada

19/1/2020 07:17:20 pm

Hi M.R.

I've just now finished watching the video. Thanks for pointing it out.

Was it the scriptural sanction of nuclear development that startled you? It's always seemed to me that scripture is so symbolic that it can be used to justify just about anything. I was a bit jolted by it myself, but nuclear development certainly seems to be working well as deterrent to attacks on North Korea.

As depressing as it is, it seem the only way to deter American aggression, though I'd far rather see a universal ban on nukes instead.

He's right that mistakes do happen in times of the kind of stress Iran was under, but I do think he ought to have expressed some sympathy with the bereaved families rather than just saying they would be compensated with money.

19/1/2020 11:08:00 pm

@ yayacanada 19/1/2020 07:17:20 pm
I guess I thought Hosein would hold the same position as Khamenei that nuclear weapons are "haram" (forbidden) by the Qur'an. You're right, scriptures can take on many meanings. Different spokes for different folks.

8/1/2020 07:10:47 pm

I'm with you all the way, M.R. re your comments.

Thanks for the link! Looks very interesting.

Did you catch Bibi's fake "slip-of-the-tongue" re Israel's nukes? I bet he enjoyed doing that. By now, he probably thinks he can get away with anything.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-netanyahu-nuclear-idUSKBN1Z40CS

8/1/2020 07:21:15 pm

Just came across this:

'We're going to war, bro': Fort Bragg's 82nd Airborne deploys to the Middle East

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-usa-fort-bragg/were-going-to-war-bro-fort-braggs-82nd-airborne-deploys-to-the-middle-east-idUSKBN1Z616W

The 600 mostly young soldiers at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, were headed for the Middle East, part of a group of some 3,500 U.S. paratroopers ordered to the region. Kuwait is the first stop for many. Their final destinations are classified.

8/1/2020 07:57:19 pm

Yes, I've read both of those. Been spending way too much time at the computer since Friday but I did manage to sleep a bit last night. I don't get comfort in ignoring these situations, only more anxiety, so I read and read and strangely it helps a bit to keep my mind engaged that way.

8/1/2020 09:40:43 pm

I can identify with what you're feeling, M.R. It's the reason I blog. Even if very few people read what I have to say, at least I'm getting it out of my system. With my old blog I had guest writers. If ever you want to try that, let me know.

9/1/2020 07:45:12 pm

Who can keep up with the spins and twists regarding all aspects of this latest Middle East crisis? Now the Iranian officials are saying they welcome "all parties involved" to investigate the crash of Flight PS-752 (wow, there's another 52 popping up) ... including Boeing.
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/01/09/615786/Iran-urges-all-parties-involved-to-contribute-to-Ukrainian-plane-crash-probe

Meanwhile Trudeau is accusing Iran of shooting down the plane but in a softer voice saying, well it could have been accidentally shot down.

I still maintain Iran would not murder its own or foreign civilians. They know what is and isn't in their own best interest. One must bear in mind though that there are some in Iran who do NOT do things in the best interest of Iran. Yes, I'm thinking of the MEK which now has the blessing of the USA.

9/1/2020 09:21:51 pm

I agree, M.R. Common sense alone, considering the history, tells one that the US is involved in this -- by proxy at least. In my opinion, Trudeau has no business opening his mouth one way or the other before a proper, impartial investigation is carried out.

9/1/2020 09:44:38 pm

Thanks for the press-tv link, M.R., it reiterates that the pilot attempted to return to base because the plane had caught fire. He would hardly have been able to turn the plane around if it had been hit by a missile, and there were eye witnesses who saw him to do it.

The fact that Iran welcomes assistance with the investigation of the crash scene is another indication of innocence.

Penny link

10/1/2020 07:20:31 am

Hey yaya

isn't this crazeeee...
Our PM, the conspiracy theorist!

Doubtful Iran shot this plane down. I'm still leaning towards the plane being still more defective boeing junk.

that specific make of plane and it's updated version- they are all Max 737's, have issues, serious issues.

And lemons being made into lemonade---

10/1/2020 09:29:33 am

That's exactly the right word, Penny - "crazeeee". You may well be right about it being just another faulty version of the 737. But the timing, coming right after the Iraq fracas is quite a coincidence.

It all sounds a lot like the mystery of the MH17. There's a very heavily-viewed, China-funded, 2015 video on YouTube that says the MH17 was downed by a Russian-made missile fired from Eastern Ukraine. People are still commenting and one commenter says: "This is echoed in today's events inside Iranian airspace."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHzavUArAXQ

10/1/2020 09:39:35 am

I was thinking about, and said to hubby just yesterday, about the resemblance to the MH-17 incident.

The repetition of known and previously exposed to information- Catapulting the propaganda as GWB said

And it's there-
Crash or shootdown?
Ukraine?
Russian missiles possibly being used? (it was the BUK in the previous incident) There have been a couple of different names tossed around regarding this incident

10/1/2020 07:22:27 am

PS: I see today Iran has invited all nations who lost citizens to come and participate in the investigation...
Boeing has been invited as well- but we don't do diplomacy with Iran- (rolls eyes)

10/1/2020 10:00:37 am

From the Associated Press via this link:
https://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/us_world/iran-invites-boeing-to-probe-plane-crash-that-killed/article_0dbc3d8a-ab2e-5cb6-8cde-83d6f39576f5.html

...“What is obvious for us, and what we can say with certainty, is that no missile hit the plane,” Ali Abedzadeh, head of Iran's national aviation department, told a press conference.

... But sentiments in Iran are still raw over the government’s crackdown on large-scale protests late last year sparked by an economic crisis exacerbated by U.S. sanctions. Several hundred protesters were reported to have been killed in the clampdown.

...U.S., Canadian and British officials said Thursday it is “highly likely” that Iran shot down the Boeing 737, which crashed near Tehran early Wednesday. U.S. officials said the jetliner might have been mistakenly identified as a threat.

Worded that way, the whole god-awful thing is starts to smell like a Soros-type provocation causing internal chaos aimed at bringing down governments. One thing's for sure, in my opinion, Freeland shouldn't be allowed anywhere near this issue.

10/1/2020 05:04:02 pm

I got up the nerve to post a comment at The Saker today re: pyschological warfare, propaganda and PS752. (That's a first for me.) The Saker attracts a bunch of quite knowlegable commenters and since, in military matters particularly, I'm very much a neophyte it was only my grave concern about how this tragic crash could be exploited that made me toss my 2 cents into the discussion pot. Some of the comments I read after posting my own indicate that there are several Saker followers who are concerned about this aspect. Thank you Yaya and Penny for having this on your radar too.

10/1/2020 05:31:16 pm

May you have many more such firsts in your life, M.R. You are a good analyst and an intelligent writer and I, for one, am always interested in what you have to say.

10/1/2020 05:46:45 pm

QUOTE: "The plane had six nuclear scientists on board who flew to Iran to help them with their nuclear program. Someone shot that plane down while they were being evacuated before a war broke out, and I seriously doubt it was Iran."

I went back to my reading and found this statement from Jim Stone. (NOTE: I find him to be too often too excitable so I very often do not trust his opinions.) Now we know which ruthless, rogue state has assassinated nuclear scientists in Iran in the past so I need to figure out if this is fact or fiction and right now I just want to let my poor head rest a bit.

10/1/2020 07:43:57 pm

Here's some old stuff that's oddly similar to the current story being circulated about 6 nuclear scientists being onboard the downed plane in Iran:

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash: Was the cure for Aids lost along with Joep Lange and 100 top researchers?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-crash-joep-lange-among-up-to-100-aids-researchers-and-activists-on-board-flight-9613821.html

The Guardian reported similarly:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/aids-conference-says-100-researchers-may-have-been-on-board-crashed-plane

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/465557/Malaysian-plane-20-on-board-worked-for-ELECTRONIC-WARFARE-and-radar-defence-company
Malaysian plane: 20 on board worked for ELECTRONIC WARFARE and radar defence company
World / Published: Wed, March 19, 2014
A US technology company which had 20 senior staff on board Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 had just launched a new electronic warfare gadget for military radar systems in the days before the Boeing 777 went missing.

Now here's the New Stuff about the crash in Iran:

Six of the people in the Iranian plane were NUCLEAR SCIENTISTS!!
https://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message4234524/pg5

Unfortunately one must sign in to see the Godlike discussion.

And then there's Jim Stone who, as M.R. described [posted above] as possibly unreliable: After reporting that Iran had downed the plane, he then settled on this version:
NEW INFO: PLANE LIKELY DOWNED BY ISRAEL OR U.S. AFTER ALL, WITH STEALTH LAUNCHED AIR TO AIR MISSILE

10/1/2020 07:47:58 pm

Sorry for omission. Here's Jim Stone's URL:
http://82.221.129.208/.vu0.html

10/1/2020 09:59:10 pm

This is as far as I got looking into this claim.

Mahdi Tajik

This is one of the six claimed to be a nuclear scientist and Flight PS752 passenger. Yes there is a man called Mahdi Tajik (born 1981) who is an expert nuclear physicist with a MA in North American Studies from Tehran University Law School but he's also an activist and former Iranian political prisoner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi_Tajik

The Mahdi Tajik who was a passenger on Flight PS752 (according to the manifest) was born in 1999 (only 20 years old) so this eliminates one of the six.
https://www.flyuia.com/ca/en/news/2020/flight-ps752-passenger-list

10/1/2020 10:53:06 pm

Wow, you're good, M.R. Hope to hear more from you, but also hope you'll get a good night's sleep.

If your sleuthing becomes extensive enough to be posted as an article, please alert me on the contact form on my About page, and I will be more than happy to publish it here under whatever name you wish. No pressure, though; absolutely.

11/1/2020 01:48:46 am

This is not the result I would have wished for Iran but Press TV has announced that PS752 was shot down down in error because it flew too close to an IRGC base and it was mistaken as an enemy plane. It's good they aren't trying to dodge responsibility for this but it's sad for them and even more so for those who died. The airport should have been shut down until the period of high alert was over.

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/01/11/615871/Iran-Ukraine-plane-crash

11/1/2020 08:18:02 am

A "sad day" indeed. Thanks for being so vigilent, M.R. Hope you got some sleep last night.

11/1/2020 03:04:21 pm

Here's some further information from PressTV ...
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/01/11/615905/full-responsibility-IRGC-Hajizadeh

Jim Stone continues to waffle (that often happens with him) but this looks conclusive enough for me. The crash happened only a week ago and the truth is out, sincere apologies have been made and the poor fellow who made that fateful 10 second decision will be judged.

Now compare this to the shootdown of Flight 655 back in 1988 ...
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/07/the-vincennes-downing-of-iran-air-flight-655-the-united-states-tried-to-cover-up-its-own-destruction-of-a-passenger-plane.html

I did sleep well last night but my heart goes out to those directly involved in this tragedy who are not sleeping well and may not for some time to come.

11/1/2020 03:30:34 pm

A very telling statement in the Slate article considering how long it took the US to finally compensate Iran for the 1988 downing of Iran Air Flight 655:

[Vice President George H.W. Bush, who was running to succeed Ronald Reagan as president, said on the campaign trail, “I will never apologize for the United States—I don’t care what the facts are.”]

Glad you got a good night's sleep, M.R. Thanks so much for your input.

Just the usual Boeing deficiency?

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